[music] Lea Rosenauer: Sometimes I'm asked in robotics clubs why the girls don't want to learn coding. And I challenge that just because a girl sits back, maybe thinks about it differently before putting forth an idea doesn't mean that they don't want to try or learn. And you have to create that environment that allows all students to thrive. And at girls age, we create that environment. And we intentionally put positive female role models in the lives of girls.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: So happy to have everybody joining our podcast today. I'm so honored to invite our special guest that's joining me today. I'm Dr. Stephanie Garcia from IDRA, the STEM Education Specialist, and I'm joined by a dear friend of mine that's doing great work in our community here in San Antonio. I'd love to introduce everybody to the president and CEO of Girls Inc. of San Antonio, Lea Rosenauer. And Lea leads the most incredible girls youth development and leadership organization that inspires girls to achieve their full potential. I just thank you again, Lea, for joining us as we talk about more the issue around the state of women and girls in STEM and what that means for our programs at IDRA and Girls Inc. Thank you again for joining.
Lea Rosenauer: Of course, it's an honor to be here. Thank you, Dr. Garcia. It's important work that we all do together in the community.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: 100%. We've got to do it together. There's a lot of work to do in community with each other, and I'm so grateful to do that alongside of you. Thinking about some of my prior experiences before I came into IDRA as a middle school science teacher, working with girls, I saw a confidence shift almost in real time. And I saw the brilliant girls that I had in my science club start to kind of question themselves. And again, it was never, and we talked about this a lot in our prior episode, but it was not about the girls' ability to do the work. It was all about their perception and their confidence. And one of the questions I wanted to start with, from your perspective at Girls Inc., when does that confidence usually shift?
Lea Rosenauer: Too early. [laughter]
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Too early, yes.
Lea Rosenauer: Yeah, there was a study a few years ago that really parallels the current study that talks about girls as early as age like nine don't believe that they are brilliant enough to have their dream job, whatever that might be. They are just living with such input after input after input, an example after example of perfect girls who know everything, who never make a mistake, who always seem confident. And girls in fourth, fifth, and definitely in middle school feel that if they're not like that in that comparison, then they're not good enough. They're not smart enough. At Girls Inc., we start with the basic premise that all girls have strengths. They don't have to earn them or learn them. They just have them. That they are inherently strong. I just have to say our mission is to inspire all girls to be strong, smart, and bold. If anyone listening has ever met me in real life, I will always say that all girls are strong, smart, and bold.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Yes, I remember that when I first met you, and I'm wearing red for Girls Inc. today, because it's just that confidence, that power that-- we have that already. And that's why when I was reading the NGCP report about the state of girls and women in STEM, it's just disheartening when you see that 57% don't believe that they're smart enough, or they fear being bossy or being perceived as bossy. And that decline happening as early as elementary, like you were saying, it's something that we've really got to talk about. That confidence gap. And I was wondering, what ways does Girls Inc. intentionally rebuild that confidence for young girls and women? What are you doing there in that organization? Because it's needed. It's needed.
Lea Rosenauer: It's [needed?]. It's one girl, one relationship at a time. I mean, we provide programming in the out-of-school time space. So after-school weekends, summer, spring break, evenings. We want girls safe, engaged, learning. And what we get to do is we start with saying, "It's not that you can't do it. It's that you can't do it yet." We have to try again. We celebrate failure. We celebrate making a mistake. It's [inaudible] nonjudgmental, "Hey, let's do it differently. Hey, we thought about this." Too often, the girls are with adults who are solving the problems for them or not letting them make mistakes or not letting them try again because of time constraints [inaudible]-- sometimes I'm asked in robotics clubs why the girls don't want to learn coding. And I'm like, "What makes you say they don't want to learn to code the [robotics?] problem?" Because they always want to do-- what I'm told is the girls want to do the research and make the display. And I challenge that. And I challenge that by saying, "What environment are you creating so that every student has the ability to ask questions, to try something? Just because a girl sits back, maybe thinks about it differently before putting forth an idea, doesn't mean that they don't want to try or learn. And you have to create that environment that allows all students to thrive." And at Girls Inc., we create that environment. And we intentionally put positive female role models in the lives of girls. If you've never seen a female engineer-- I mean, why would you? Maybe you just haven't met a female engineer. Why would [crosstalk] jobs for you?
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: That's so true. It's not about the academic skill. It's about the identity and belonging. Confidence isn't a personality trait. It's built through experience, belonging, and affirmation is what I'm hearing. That you're doing all of that in your programming at Girls Inc, and that's what builds confidence. That's what helps create that environment for them to thrive, to see themselves like that. We've got to create those safe learning environments. You talked about mentorship and that power of representation, and that shifts identity too, right? We think about all the research - and I talk about that in our article too - about the powerful role that representation and mentorship plays in a student's trajectory. I mean, it flips trajectories. And that exposure changes perception and that girls desire to learn about STEM careers when they see themselves in STEM, right? And I want to tie that into Girls Inc. mission, right? When girls see women who look like them in STEM, that abstract becomes attainable, don't you think?
Lea Rosenauer: That's exactly right. That's why I have the best job. Because I get to put positive female role models in all walks of life in the lives of these girls. You can't become what you don't see.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Right. I'd love for you to share more about that. Tell me a story of a girl whose trajectory shifted after they met a mentor, for example.
Lea Rosenauer: Exactly. I would love to. And the other thing that girls tell me is they're finally in a space with girls who support them. This peer support is also incredibly critical. For some of our girls who join our Eureka Program, our five-year STEM program-- we take rising eighth graders who maybe for the first time feel like they're not different. There are other girls who like to do this. There are other girls who are interested in science. And for the first time, they're like, "Wow, I'm not weird or different." And just that alone, that peer support like, "Yes, we're doing this together." And then the adult mentors who form those relationships, who are there to tell the students and the girls that they can be successful, that you need to try again, that you are capable, you just haven't learned it yet, or you have to try a different way. Intentionality comes up a lot for us. Being intentional about how we talk about science, how we talk about women in STEM fields, how we intentionally use examples. Like right now, the Artemis Space Mission is the first female astronaut who circled the moon. Be intentional. Call that out so that they can make that connection, "Oh, oh, there's someone who looks like me up in space. Wow."
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Yes. Yes. Exactly.
Lea Rosenauer: The other thing the girls love about their adult mentors is learning about the mistakes we made. None of our journeys have been a straight line, have been perfect. And the mentors share those experiences. And the girls are like, "Wow. I don't have to be perfect. Everyone tells me I need to be perfect and know the answer [crosstalk]." And the mentors that we put into these girls' lives just help keep it real and are always there to support them.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: That's so crucial. And I think that is really what collaboration and impact looks like. When you have people coming together to build those supportive systems where girls could really thrive and really be accepted and feel seen, that's all so important.
Lea Rosenauer: And that's exactly what happened with Abigail, who joined the Eureka program and felt like she wasn't alone anymore, that other girls liked science. She found mentors in the program who supported her. She found her first science internship at UT San Antonio Health, at the time it was the Health Science Center, in a lab where they were testing cannabis oil and its effect on mood and hormones in mice, [laughter] but accepted and was fascinated. And the adults in the lab listened to her. She got to do real things. She could see herself in that career. There's something called a STEM identity. We want girls to just see themselves as part of the STEM ecosystem. "I can do that. I can help people. I can solve problems." The NGCP report talks about how girls really want to be in helping professions. Well, that's STEM. Let's talk about that. Yeah. [crosstalk] all the time.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Yeah. Exactly. It's problem-solving.
Lea Rosenauer: Problem-solving all the time. And women and girls throughout history have solved some of the hardest problems. So being intentional about that. So that's what we get to do in the girls in space.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Oh, that's incredible. Yes. I mean, they talked about that in the article and research about how sometimes they may not be seen as traditionally identifying with STEM, but, no, they are. They're problem solvers. They're looking at that social impact, that direct impact. They're doing research, high-level research that they didn't think they could do before, and they're doing it. And I love hearing Abigail's story because, again, it's changing the mentorship and creating that environment where they're safe. It changes their trajectory. Now they see and hear about opportunity, but now they have access to the opportunity. And that's the game changer. And I think that--
Lea Rosenauer: I often say all the time - you'll agree with this - talent may be universal. Girls have talent, they have skills. But access to opportunity is not.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: Yes. Yes. It's not, exactly. And that's why this work matters so much for us, and it's our why. I talked about that in our prior episode of What's My Why? It's this. It's that life-changing story of someone like Abigail, right, that is now accessing it, and has the tools that she needs and the mentorship and support and the environment she needs to thrive. Running a lot of our STEM programs like VisionCoders in schools, and a lot of families say, "Hey, I see that my child is interested in this, but what can I do to support them in this pathway?" Like, I don't know how I fit into this to support them. And so I want to talk a little bit more about that. What can families and family-centered programming do to really help shift into that practical and empowering step and role for their child? And I think that the language-- I think you would agree with this. The language that we use at home about math and science, it matters more than we realize. I want to hear more about what you think about that language happening in our homes and with our families. What advice would you give our families?
Lea Rosenauer: First thing, assume girls are good in science and math. Just assume they're good. So many times we tell ourselves we're not good in math. Your aunt might say, "Oh, I'm not a math person." And all of those little comments get embedded in a fifth grader, in a sixth grader. "Well, my mom's not good at math. I'm not good at math." And so just from the beginning, just assume that your daughter, your granddaughter, your niece, that they're good at math and science. That's [crosstalk] fine. Ask them, lean into their curiosity. Lean into their curiosity.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: I love that.
Lea Rosenauer: And that can be hard. I wonder what happens when the recycling is picked up. Lots of tools right now to figure that out, to put that into a Google Search. Lean into that curiosity. Let's find out, instead of [crosstalk], right? Remind girls that they need to keep trying. It's not that you're not good at it. You're just not good yet. Let's figure that out. If you have the opportunity and the ability, visit museums together. You don't have to be great at natural sciences. We can go to the museum and learn together. [crosstalk] exhibits together. Go to the Botanical Garden and learn about botany together. Be willing to be curious yourself. And it's okay to be vulnerable with your students and your daughters and your granddaughters as well. Say, You know something? Growing up for me personally, algebra was difficult. And I got scared, and I got nervous." But it's okay to be vulnerable with my student and say, "I felt like I couldn't do it. And I asked for help. And it's okay to feel like you can't do it. But how do you get past that? Don't let that stop you."
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: That's so real. I also struggled in some of my higher-level math and science courses at the university level. I was top 10% in high school, and then it was a reality check when I hit my university classes. And I think that I would have benefited so much of having somebody saying struggle is part of learning. It's not proof that you don't belong. You do belong. It's just this is part of learning. The struggle is okay. It's okay to fail sometimes. And it's okay to retake that class sometimes. And I think having that comfortable and safe space and a person that can encourage you like that and cheer you on, those are some of those small shifts that make really great impact in our homes and in our classrooms, right? Well, I know we're almost out of time. Again, I know we could talk about this all day. And I know that this is what's energizing to me is finding my people like you that in our community doing the same work, where we're encouraging our students and this community-rooted work works. That's why I wanted to invite you so much is because part of our Alamo STEM Ecosystem, the idea of co-leads here in San Antonio, it's bringing all these cross-sector folks, academia, industry, our nonprofits, our community-based work, and all getting in this alignment together because there's so much impact to be made here in our city. And I just wanted to kind of leave with some of this final thought of, are you hopeful about the future of girls in STEM? And what gives you that hope?
Lea Rosenauer: Oh, what gives me that hope is talking to the girls. I mean, this work is one relationship at a time. And when I get into conversations with the girls who come to our center, who come to summer camp, who are sharing their dreams and feel supported, I know we're in good hands. The future is really, really bright. And it's the students that keep me, the girls that keep me grounded every day, all day.
Dr. Stephanie Garcia: I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. And I just want to leave our listeners with this, that the question-- again, I know we had started this conversation, Leah and I back in 2019 when I first met Leah and Girls Inc. of San Antonio, but the question is not about whether girls belong at STEM. They do. The question is about whether we're building systems that really reflect that truth. And so I just want to leave that with our listeners of what ways can you contribute to building these systems that support our girls and our women in STEM, and who can you connect with? What are some other like-minded folks, like IDRA and Girls Inc. that's doing this work and find your people to do that community-rooted work because it works and it matters. And so thank you again, Leah, for joining us today. I truly appreciate it. And we'll hopefully come and invite you back again, and we can keep this discussion going and keep learning from each other and applying these practices to our programs that really are proven to work. And so thank you again, and thank you for all the work you're doing here in San Antonio. And thank you, listeners, for joining in, and we'll stay tuned for next time. Thank you.
VO: Thank you for listening to IDRA Classnotes. For more information on IDRA and other Classnotes topics, go to www.idra.org. You can also send us your thoughts by email to podcast@idra.org.
By about fifth grade, girls’ confidence in STEM subjects starts to fall. As a result, girls are less likely to take higher-level math courses in high school or choose STEM fields in college. But something can be done about it.
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