CHRISTIE: Hello, I am Christie Goodman, IDRA Director of Communications. I'm not usually the one behind the recorder, so you and our listeners often don't hear my voice here. But I wanted to be the one to introduce this particular episode because we have something special in store for you today. Dr. María "Cuca" Robledo Montecel and her son, Xavier Montecel, have embarked on an oral history project in the form of their own podcast, Cuentos de mi familia. In Episode 108, they focus on Cuca's professional life with IDRA, which spanned 48 of IDRA's now 51 years. For 26 of those years, she served as IDRA's president and CEO. She is now president emerita. We will link to their podcast series in the show notes. And we have the honor of sharing this episode in our class notes podcast feed.
In this conversation, Cuca reflects on IDRA's vision to, as she says, "Create a world where all children have opportunities in life that come from a great education." And she talks about how the original intention of IDRA was not to have to be around 51 years. But it became clear that more work needed to be done to create a better world. She shares stories of what that work looked like and accomplished for students, families, teachers, and community advocates. All who care deeply about equity and excellence in public education. And just so you know, as I'm talking to you in late November 2024, IDRA is doubling down on this commitment because students are counting on us. Now sit back and enjoy Cuentos de mi familia, Episode 108, by Cuca and Xavier.
XAVIER: Welcome to Cuentos de mi familia, an oral history project about the stories and the people that make us who we are. I'm Xavier, and I'm sitting with my mom, Cuca. And today, Madre, I'd like us to talk about your professional life.
CUCA: All right, let's do that.
XAVIER: Your career. I'm interested in sort of the values that have driven you, the key moments that have made you who you are as a professional, and the work itself; the work that you've done and chosen to do over the years of your career. But before we jump into the narrative, I thought that I would remind our listeners who may not be as familiar with this part of you, who exactly you are and how you've spent your career. So, you have worked at IDRA, the Intercultural Development Research Association for 48 years. And for 26 of those years, you were its president and CEO. Can you give us a little bit of a snapshot about IDRA? I'm sure we'll talk more about it in a moment, but what kind of organization is it?
CUCA: IDRA celebrated 50 years of existence last year. And we did so with gusto and astonishment at having been around for 50 years because we intended to be around a short time. Our cause, our concern is that not all children have equal educational opportunities. And our mission is to create a school system, create a world in which children have opportunities in life that come from a great education. And so we were astonished to be 50 because when we started in 1973, we thought that all that was needed was to put out a little bit of information about how awful things were for some children and how those awful things tended to occur more for children of color, poor children, migrant children, immigrant children, and that people would hear that information about inequality and help us to change it. We learned that that was important, but not sufficient, that there needed to be an extraordinary change in public will to change policies and to change the many things that needed to be changed. And so, we're glad. I am glad that the Intercultural Development Research Association is still around, that it's still devoted to the same mission, and that we get to create a better world. We've done a little bit of that, but there's a lot to do.
XAVIER: I mean, what an enormous project. And I know from having watched you in your career over the years that it's a multifaceted project as well. It's not just about information, although it is. There's the research which is a key part of what your organization does and what you've done over the years. But then there's also the advocacy, then there's the policy work, then there's the training of educators. There’re so many pieces to the pie to move that ball forward in terms of justice for children.
CUCA: Yes, the technical assistance that we provide to school districts, to policymakers, to communities who seek our help in making their own children's lives better. So, you're right, Xavier, when you say it's a multifaceted approach. And I think, in fact, that that is one of the things that distinguishes IDRA from other organizations.
XAVIER: That it's kind of holistic in that way?
CUCA: That it's holistic in that way. There are organizations that do policy, do it very well. There are organizations that do training and technical assistance and do that very well. There are certainly research organizations and institutions of higher learning that do very good research. The challenge, I think, is to integrate all those facets into a powerful strategy. And that, I think, is what distinguishes our work. That, I think, is what has resulted in significant changes in early childhood education, for example. When IDRA started, early childhood education was not seen as an important.
XAVIER: Really?
CUCA: It was more like childcare rather than early education of young children, and particularly early education of young children who happened to be emerging bilingual students or already bilingual students or immigrant students. And so IDRA had an opportunity very early on in the late 1970s to develop the first national bilingual early childhood education curriculum called AMANECER, and then we adapted it as the years went by and have a very beautiful curriculum now called Semillitas de Aprendizaje, which means seeds of learning. And so we are very proud of what we have done to bring early childhood education for all children to the forefront, among other areas.
XAVIER: So that's who you are then, at least that's a piece of it, the early childhood education. I'm sure there are other elements that we'll have a chance to talk about in your professional work with IDRA, which it sounds like you've been there for most of its history because you said IDRA has just celebrated 50 years, and I know that you spent, what, 48 years now as a part of that organization. So you've really got to see it through as it has addressed these issues over time, but also probably evolved and changed a bit as an organization.
CUCA: That's right. And I've been there for most of its history, but also for most of my history. I was 23 years old when I started to work at IDRA.
XAVIER: So, it's a huge part of who you are.
CUCA: A very big part.
XAVIER: It has accompanied you as you've evolved.
CUCA: That's exactly right.
XAVIER: Yeah. So now, sort of looking back before we get into the narrative and the details of how you came to the work that you've done, I'd like to ask kind of a general question. How would you describe your professional identity? Because, for me, so many words come to mind when I think about you. You're a researcher. You're an advocate. You're an executive. You're a networker. How would you put it? Who are you, professionally, now that you look back on your career?
CUCA: I think I would answer that as I am an advocate for children, except that the word advocacy, perhaps because it's overused, doesn't quite capture the depth of what I'm speaking about. I can't think of another word that would more accurately reflect a very deep caring for children and children's lives and children's future that comes as much from my work at IDRA as it comes from my growing up, from the values that my parents had, and the way that they taught me to be of service in the world, primarily on behalf of children.
XAVIER: So this is not just what you do. You don't see your career just as an occupation. It's an expression of those kind of core values that we've been talking about throughout the whole project that you inherited from your parents and your family and others who were a part of your formation.
CUCA: That's right. And that was reflected as I was growing up in many ways, the way that my parents cared for children in the extended family, both my mom and my dad, I think, were looked up to in terms of their guidance. In terms of their advocacy, one could say using that word for them and for children. And so that's where I learned that value. And I think also other values that have to do with my professional identity, like studying hard and working hard, came from my family and of course, were, I think, very much enhanced by my professional life and my career, particularly at IDRA. Although IDRA was not the only place where I worked, I finished my Bachelor of Science and Social Work at Our Lady of the Lake University in December of 1972. And I did brief Stitz as a researcher first and an evaluator with behavioral research laboratories and with development associates out of Washington, DC.
And I began to learn about the application of research and evaluation in schools through that-- I don't know. It might have been a year and a half or so. I don't have the exact timeline now, but something like a year, a year and a half. And that was really, really good experience. It came from a recommendation that my statistics teacher at Our Lady of the Lake University made to me. And even though I had a bachelor’s in social work, she said, "I know you like research. I know you love statistics and you're good at it. And there's this job for a research assistant." So, I started there.
XAVIER: So that research and statistics piece came together right after college?
CUCA: Immediately. I started there actually in January. I didn't have much time to waste. Money was not abundant. Money was rather short. And that is the reason that I did my bachelor's degree, for example, at Our Lady of the Lake in two and a half years. By really taking a lot of courses not just during the regular semesters, but during the summer and during something that at that time was called an interterm between the fall semester and the spring semester.
XAVIER: Yeah. So, you couldn't dawdle. It wasn't like just take your whole four years of college and explore, see this, see that. You had to get through efficiently.
CUCA: No. I had to get through and it was important to get through in the shortest amount of time because I needed to work. My financing of my education at Our Lady of the Lake came as it does for many young people today through a blend of various sources. I had something that at the time was called the National Defense Student Loan from the federal government, and I had the Texas Opportunity grant from the state of Texas, and I had a very small scholarship that was given me by my high school because I was the valedictorian. And then in addition to that, I had a work-study, which was at the chemistry department at Our Lady of the Lake with religious women who I appreciated and admired and who taught me a lot. One of them, Dr. Jane Ann Slater, who is a sister of the Divine Providence, later became president of Our Lady of the Lake and Chancellor, one of the first female chancellors of the Archdiocese of San Antonio, one of the first females in the country to hold that position. So, my sense is that life unfolds and that you find paths. You make paths as you walk, as the great Spanish poet says. Caminante, no hay camino. Se hace camino al andar. Sojourner, there is no path. You make the path as you go.
XAVIER: Which we talked about a couple of episodes - I'm reminded - ago when we talked about the Camino. The Camino de Santiago, that we walked together.
CUCA: That's exactly right.
XAVIER: So, the road then toward your career begins kind of in earnest as you finish up college and you get that research work under your belt. But I'm still curious about these elements that you're describing at Our Lady of the Lake and as you transitioned from Laredo to San Antonio. My question, I guess, is what was that like? How did you go from finishing up high school in Laredo as the valedictorian to traveling what I'm sure felt like halfway across the world, three hours to San Antonio, living on your own on campus, I assume, pulling together all these financial resources to make this happen? Can you tell us a little bit about that transition coming in to Our Lady of the Lake?
my parents and that I saw growing up were the ones that helped me to move forward. The work hard, the study hard. But my parents really were not in a position to assist me with financing my education at all. And so therefore, the need in terms of putting together a package, like I mentioned just a bit ago. The high school that I went to, a Catholic high school, Ursuline Academy in Laredo, Texas, brought us to San Antonio, and it was the big city, and it was half a world away for me. Not only was it far and I hadn't visited often, but it was very different from what I grew up with and in as a young woman of the borderlands. I grew up in Laredo, Texas and Nuevo Laredo, Mexico because I had family on both sides. My grandmother lived on the other side, meaning Nuevo Laredo, Mexico, and so we would spend every Sunday there.
And so I was steeped in a beautiful culture and linguistic characteristics of the border. And so San Antonio was a very different world. And so when we came on that bus, we were brought to visit two campuses, Our Lady of the Lake University and Incarnate Word College. It was called at the time, Incarnate Word College. It's now Incarnate Word University. We went to both and spoke with people at both. Our Lady of the Lake seemed to me to have a little bit of what my heart wanted; a little bit more like my borderland culture and language.
XAVIER: Was that because of the people who were there who shared that background or was it just something in the culture?
CUCA: It was something in the culture. There was warmness that I was very used to and so I made the decision to come to Our Lady of the Lake University and did so in September of 1970.
XAVIER: Okay. And did you make that decision right after this trip or during this trip? Was it right away for you?
CUCA: Sure. Right after the trip. And I should say that by the time I got to Our Lady of the Lake in September of 1970, I had taken 12 hours of coursework at the community college
XAVIER: Yes. So, you had transfer credit too.
CUCA: So, I had transfer credit. So, I finished. I graduated in May of 1970 from Ursuline Academy, which was financed by my working at the school office. And then took 12 hours, of course, work at Laredo Junior College, and so I had 12 hours under my belt when I arrived. And when I arrived, I remember being very sad. Very sad. I was missing my home. I was missing my parents. I was missing the culture I was born and raised in. Even though San Antonio is thought of as a Latino, as a Hispanic city, and in fact, it is, and it was even at the time. It wasn't, it was not my world. And so, I remember, I think I've shared this story with you before, sitting at the cafeteria in Our Lady of the Lake University way at the beginning when I arrived there, and they brought in some mariachis. And oh, my goodness, I just started bawling and crying, when I heard the mariachi music because that was me, that was mine, and here it was. And slowly, of course, I came to realize that not only was Our Lady of the Lake my home, but San Antonio was my home as well. And that is really where I have spent most of the rest of my life, except for the time that I took to go to Milwaukee, Wisconsin to get my PhD at the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee.
XAVIER: Another big transition moment a little later on in this story.
CUCA: But as you know, I was older by then.
XAVIER: And you had done it before.
CUCA: And I had done it before and knew that I could do it again. And there I encountered the kind of discrimination that I had never really lived in Wisconsin before that I didn't know much about that was very not overt as it tends to be in Texas or tended to be at that time.
XAVIER: Was this ethnic sort of racial discrimination?
CUCA: This was ethnic and racial perceptions.
XAVIER: Because I do remember one of the pieces of the story that we've already discussed is some of the class discrimination. In the context of Laredo, and I'm sure certainly in San Antonio and when you started college, that was still there. But this sounds different because it's like when you went to do your PhD, this is sort of like Midwest propriety and the sort of under-the-table but still obvious discrimination.
CUCA: That's exactly right. I forget his exact title, but he had something to do with placing me when I went up to the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee for the PhD. And we were in his office, and he looked at my GRE scores, which as you know, of course, are the tests to get into graduate school. They were at that time. And he looked at those and he looked at me and he said, "You must not be Hispanic."
XAVIER: Wow
CUCA: And I said, "Yes, I am." But he just sorts of-- his brain, his heart, his mind, his perceptions couldn't allow those two things to be together.
XAVIER: Yes. That excellence on paper and that background.
CUCA: Right. The scores were too high to be from a Hispanic. And I don't know, maybe a little bit of that was also being female. I don't know that, but he did mention the Hispanic part. And of course, that was not new to me, except that at that time in San Antonio, certainly, but in many parts of Texas, the discrimination that is historic and that continues today was rather covert. It isn't any longer. We live in a world now where perceptions of people of color, perceptions of women, are quite blatantly declared as what is racist, sexist, sexist and discriminatory. But at that time, it was like a little more.
XAVIER: It was different. It was, covert, as you said.
CUCA: Right. And I wasn't too used, especially being from Laredo where I had experienced a lot of class discrimination, but not as much racial discrimination, if only because Laredo was at that time anyway, probably 96, 97 percent Hispanic. And so the discrimination was between the upper classes and the lower classes, and even between people who had money newly and people who had money from old families. It's amazing how we as human beings create all these divisions that really don't exist, that come from our unwillingness or inability to see ourselves as human beings who have more in common than we have in terms of differences. But that required then, and continues to require now, perhaps even more so, constant vigilance, constant fighting, constant looking at how to change those institutions and those institutional practices that result in children, and certainly families and communities, having fewer opportunities in life.
And that is not fair. As Americans, we may not be yet everything that we want to be as a country. We continue to look for that more perfect union. But we do have a sense, I believe, of what is fair. Most of us do. And so it is on that fairness that I have banked on in terms of my professional career. It is on that fairness expressed as love that I have tried to live myself with others in my family, in my community, in my religious life.
XAVIER: So that value of fairness has driven you-- and we've talked about where that comes from. We talked about your dad and his sense of fairness. And it also sounds like it's been a key tool for you. Right? It's that kind of principle that you always come back to, that you appeal to in continuing to make the case for justice and for equality for children in schools. So that's, I think, an important through line. I'm thinking about everything you've said around discrimination and you're very clear-eyed about the kind of world that you came up in and the kind of worlds that you had to work through and push through. And in the context of your transitioning from Laredo to San Antonio to go to Our Lady of the Lake, there's a connection that I don't think I had ever made before because your story and mine is very different. The kinds of discrimination in the world that I was in is just very different from yours. I consider myself very, very lucky because I frankly just dealt with less because of who I am. I come from a more affluent background than you did. I'm male and so on. But also, the world had changed. So anyway, there's differences there, but there's a connection that I had never really made before as you were describing that part of your life, which is between your transition into college and mine. Because I also went to visit the college that I ultimately ended up at, which is Fordham.
XAVIER: We went together. And I remember very clearly this sense that, "Oh, no, this is the place. I must come here even though it's a world away," because I had tried these other schools. I had tried UT and Trinity and Rice. And it just wasn't it. There wasn't that energy or that connection. And then I was at Fordham, and I was like, "Oh, no, this is it." Just like you were at Our Lady of the Lake and said, "There's something here that I can connect to, but it's also a world away." And as you said, you were very sad when you first were at Our Lady of the Lake and the mariachis made you cry and everything. I must have cried straight through my entire first semester at Fordham. I was in a dorm with a bunch of lacrosse players, and I had no friends, and I was so far away from home, and I just didn't get the culture, and I didn't get the city. But I just cannot overstate how important taking that step was. And I'm not recommending to anybody that they expose themselves to overwhelming and dangerous situations if that's harmful. But there is really something to doing the hard thing, which is something that I've learned from you. And stepping into a space and insisting that you belong there and doing the work to back it up while keeping the values in focus.
XAVIER: I don't think of myself as a person who sees work as its own end. It's not work because work, even if it's noble work. It's work because of the good, of the values that you're working toward. So, I don't know, there's a parallel there between my story and yours that I really am starting to appreciate now that you're telling that story again. Which takes us then, so you're at Our Lady of the Lake, you pull it together, you finish in two and a half years. You get into this research position through a connection. Tell us again who it was that connected to you. My statistics teacher. Your statistics teacher. So, you bring that set of tools on board. You're going to become this researcher. So, what's next? What job comes next? Who's the next big figure? Who kind of moves you forward in your career?
CUCA: Well, allow me before we move forward, if you're interested in sort of what powered me later while I was at Our Lady of the Lake, my English teacher. Sister Laura Ann Quiñones has had everything to do with my success later in life. She was my freshman English teacher to begin with and was completely dissatisfied with our class. We were insufficient to the task of thinking or writing and she would tell us so. And when grades came back in what was called a sort of interim grading and midterm, I got a C. Well, never in my entire life had I gotten a C. Never. And oh, my gosh, was I distressed. I worked hard despite feeling very badly. And I ended up at the end of that class with a B-plus, and I was so thrilled because I had worked and worked for it. I decided that I had learned so very much from her that I would take the challenge and take another English course with her and then take a third English course with her. So, three of the four English classes that I took at Our Lady of the Lake University were with Sister Laura Ann Quiñones.
XAVIER: And did the grades improve little by little?
CUCA: Oh, my goodness. At the end of the last course, I took with her, I got an A-minus. it was just the most wonderful thing in the world. And as a matter of fact, we were studying utopias and dystopias and reading a lot and writing a lot, and I got an A-minus and I was thrilled. Sister Laura Ann Quiñones was at my graduation in December of 1972, and she came up to me and she said, "I wish I had more students like you." And I said, "I wish I had had more teachers like you." We became lifetime friends. She died some years ago. But before that happened, we had an opportunity to work together in many ways. She went to work at the US Department of Education with one of the bilingual directors there. We had some communication in that way. She came back to Our Lady of the Lake, and she became a superior general of the Sisters of the Divine Providence. This after spending many years in the South serving as an interpreter for Hispanics who did not speak English, and so she would interpret for them at hospitals and other places.
CUCA: When she died, a group came from, I think it was, North Carolina where she was working, and they called themselves Laura Anne's Angels. And they were all people who had benefit from her going to the community and using her translation skills. She was from Honduras. And I just remember that when she was a teacher at Our Lady of the Lake, there wasn't much of a display of, "I am for the people." It was more of a strict teacher. And seeing that either manifestation change or a transformation in her, I don't know which, caused me to know that change is possible and that it affects many. So, she, when she was the superior general, had me become a member of the Board of Trustees at Our Lady of the Lake University. I served nine years. And so I had the good fortune of seeing that institution, not only as a freshman who cried when she heard mariachis coming from a small town like Laredo and coming to the big city, but also to be able to make a difference in terms of serving as a trustee at the university and looking at issues of fairness that had to do with issues as important as the raise that faculty would get versus staff versus people who were janitors. And Laura Anne taught me, again, about equity and equality, being the voice for equality, one of the voices for equality, in that board.
XAVIER: That's amazing. I knew her name, but I had no idea she was such a model for you in that way.
CUCA: Absolutely. And she made me a very, very good writer.
XAVIER: Which is another key piece of the story, right, the writing.
CUCA: Which is another key piece of the story is, yes, I was very good at statistics and research, and I loved it, and that's what really is my professional love is to do research, to design it, to analyze data, to write it up, as I did for many IDRA projects, including importantly, the prevention dropouts. But then also writing and serving as the executive editor of the IDRA newsletter for 26 years, and doing so, I think, well and to the benefit of children. Going, again, back to what matters for kids, one of the concerns that I have about our current efforts on behalf of children is that sometimes, I worry that we think that children have to do for themselves, that children have to become spokespeople for causes, whether it is raising money for cancer or raising money for children's hunger or speaking out against gun violence, all of those issues important. I am pro-eliminating cancer, and I am very much pro-feeding children so that they can learn and be their best as God intended and against gun violence. I still sometimes worry about having children become their own advocates at too early an age. It is our responsibility as adults to change the world, always knowing what our children need, always including them but not having them be responsible for changing the world or demanding their own dignity. Their dignity and respect come, I believe, from who children are, and that is that they are people, not little people but young people that should be cared for and loved. And so that, I think, is-- one of the challenges going forward is to what degree do we engage youth in advocacy - and we should, and we ought to, and we do engage youth in advocacy - but also understanding that it is adults who are responsible, adults in schools, adults in families, adults in community, policymakers.
XAVIER: Policymakers. Exactly. It seems to me-- and this is maybe just the ethicist in me wanting to find kind of what's at the root of this. It seems to me that, relative to the issue that you're describing, that principle of fairness and of justice is so needed and so important because part of the problem may be that we sort of culturally have entered into a mindset of like, "We need to be convinced and compelled and our heartstrings need to be tugged in order to take action, in order to do anything." And it's not that compassion and the heart are unimportant - they're fundamentally important - but that only makes sense alongside justice and alongside fairness and alongside respect for the dignity of all human beings, especially children as full persons. It must be both, and we're responsible for both, right? What you're describing as sort of this sort of tendency to try to make children their own advocates and to use the child as a sort of way of compelling interest or compelling action or compelling change. That does seem problematic, right? Because we can lose sight of the sort of basic requirements of justice and moral and social responsibility. And I've always had the sense that IDRA is so clear-sighted, and you as having been at its helm for so long have helped to make it be so clear-sighted about all children deserve access to education. All children deserve respect. All children deserve to be part of a flourishing community just because they do.
CUCA: Yeah, exactly.
XAVIER: Right? None is expendable because that's who and what they are.
CUCA: Yes. All children are valuable. None is expendable. And I think it is a sad day when we use children to create justice.
XAVIER: Yes. Rather than giving justice to children.
CUCA: Precisely. Well said. So, the research issues that IDRA was involved with, as you know, is the prevention of dropouts, high school dropouts. And the State of Texas has suffered, and still does, from a very high dropout rate.
XAVIER: So, this is children dropping out of high school. Is that right for the most part?
CUCA: Exactly. And that has been and continues to be an ongoing problem in the education of children in the State of Texas and in many parts of the United States. At IDRA, we did the first statewide study of dropouts in the state of Texas, and I had the good fortune of serving as the principal investigator of that study. The study found that a lot of lives were being lost before graduating high school, but a lot of money was being lost. And the inability to have the children who drop out of school able to work, to pay taxes. Many children who dropped out had no other option and would end up in prison, all kinds of issues and problems related to the state's and the school's inability to graduate all children, at least through high school. And so, our goal has been to change that. And in 1986, when we conducted this first statewide study, I began to see a pattern after the issue was highlighted by IDRA and there were policies that were put in place because of the data that we collected. There were dropout coordinators in the school district, but there was a big problem that began to emerge, and that is to bring children in to talk about how problematic their home life was and that that was the reason for them dropping out. So why do you children drop out? And then being encouraged to talk about their parents taking drugs or them living in poverty or the many things that too often schools and states want to blame for the inability or unwillingness to educate children through to high school graduation. I saw researchers, my own colleagues begin to put high school dropouts or even high schoolers still in school to talk about the many things that were wrong with their lives and then to use that as case studies in a way that was wrong.
XAVIER: Factually and morally.
CUCA: Factually and morally wrong. Absolutely.
XAVIER: Right. And my sense, now that you're providing this context, for a long time has been that IDRA is very much about the opposite. IDRA is very much about demonstrating in a data-backed sort of way that children's families and communities and parents and heritage, all of it, is an asset for learning and for combating the phenomenon of dropouts and so on. It's not that children need to be rescued from their contexts. It's that their contexts are an underutilized resource and the best resource to help students to succeed, to help children to succeed.
CUCA: Yes. We have worked with many families, with many communities that have engaged with research data and then use that data to make their neighborhood schools educate their children to a higher degree or to have the state change what needs to be changed. And so yes, parents, families, communities are great assets. We have Ed Cafes, we call them, which are parents and communities at the local level who work to better their schools. That needs to be better funded. We need to make sure that this asset-based approaches, become the way in which we create change and create justice and have our children not only graduating high school, but graduating from college and going beyond their bachelor's degrees. Some superintendents are doing a very good job, for example, with early college high schools, which treat students as able learners. That's the other key, is not assuming that students who come from poor neighborhoods are the problem. They are not the problem. The problem is poor policy. The problem is poor educational practice. The problem is thinking that students are the problem instead of changing institutional practices. And that's what IDRA has done and continues to do very well.
XAVIER: This reminds me of another initiative, and I think longstanding program at IDRA, as I understand it, that was kind of in my consciousness when I was a child. And that was the Coca-Cola Valued Youth Program. In this same spirit of the children are not the problem, that program, isn't it the case, would take supposedly at-risk students who were older, make them tutors for younger students, and then just measure the data, see what happens? And what happened is that they thrived. They were not problems to be solved, right? There was opportunity for encounter for relationship and for young people to make of themselves something in relationship and in community with others. And you can measure the data the success that that creates.
CUCA: Yes. And students staying in school, teachers changing their perceptions of students because they see them succeeding. And yes, the Valued Youth Partnership Program, as it is called right now, is in several communities and continues to produce the same results. And that is that more than 95%, sometimes 98% of students stay in school, which is much higher than those sort of the, quote, "normal" rates, and so the data continues to speak for itself. The program was so good that we were asked to take it to Brazil, we were asked to take it to Puerto Rico, we were asked to take it to England, and we did. Our primary work, though, is focused on children in the United States. And so, we bring this perspective. We bring not only the concept, but the actual way of changing schools. Action steps that you take to institutionalize change.
XAVIER: Right. At a variety of different levels, not just, let's change the law policy, but in schools, in families, in communities, in the research establishment.
CUCA: Right. And in teacher training and technical assistance. We had several teacher training programs, which we developed with institutions of higher education, that through a period of 15 years, produced a great number of teachers that are in high-need areas, bilingual teachers, English as Second Language teachers, teachers of mathematics. And that approach is also one that values the teacher and encourages the teacher to look at valuing the student and how that is happening. So, we have several programs now, and I'm happy that some of those are focused on STEM, on mathematics and science. And we're finding that when children are given opportunities, which provide them with challenges, they rise to the challenges, as I did, as people do. When we are thought of as capable and given the support that we need and held accountable for the support that has given us, then we can be our best self.
XAVIER: Yes. That's wonderful. I think that's just such a thrilling set of commitments to guide your career. As we wrap up, I kind of want to come back to your story and have you sort of connect the dots. Take us, if you would, on a journey from graduating at Our Lady of the Lake with a social work degree, ending up in this research position, from there to your first sort of moments at IDRA. How did you get there? Who were the key people? What were the stops along the way?
CUCA: Yes, yes. I had the good fortune for a short period of time to work with Dr. Ernesto Bernal, who was a professor at that time at the University of Texas at San Antonio. I worked with him for a short while, and for various circumstances. It turned out that the center that I worked with, which was a center for evaluation of bilingual programs, closed at the university. Dr. Bernal was very conscious of the fact that the young people, me included, who worked with him, would be left without a job. And so, he called Dr. Bambi Cárdenas, Blandina Cárdenas, who later became the president of the University of Texas-Pan American. And Dr. José Cárdenas, who founded IDRA and was heading up IDRA at the time, and said, "Look, I have--" there were two people that he recommended. The other one didn't stay at IDRA very long, but he says, "I have two people." And that was myself included. "I have Cuca Robledo who is very good. She has done good work here and I would like for you to consider hiring her." So, I went over, I talked to Bambi, and then Bambi had me talk to José and then I was hired. In July of 1976, I became a research assistant at IDRA.
CUCA: And in a period of time, I went from being a research assistant to conducting the first studies of the costs of bilingual education in Utah and in Colorado. I had an opportunity to be the Director of Training and Technical Assistance. I had an opportunity to establish the Center for the Prevention and Recovery of Dropouts. And many, many things happened with the full support of these wonderful people in this wonderful organization who were and are completely committed to children. And so those values that I spoke about as getting originally from my parents just sort of became nurtured.
XAVIER: Right. By that small community; by IDRA.
CUCA: By that small community of IDRA people who over many years taught me many, many things about institutions, about change. Dr. Abelardo Villarreal, who was at IDRA almost for the entire time that I was there, taught me a lot about how to change schools. And so, I learned from many, many people. Aurelio Montemayor taught me about families and communities. Dr. José Cárdenas taught me a lot about so very many.
XAVIER: And he was your great mentor.
CUCA: He was my great mentor, and I am always appreciative of the commitment with which he continued his work at IDRA. And so, I have learned from many people. I have learned from the many young people that I have had an opportunity to interact with and be with during my tenure at IDRA, and so I'm grateful for young people. I'm grateful for families. I'm grateful for communities. I'm grateful for my IDRA family. And most importantly, I'm grateful for my family, for you, for your brother Ismael, for your father, for Lucas, who supported me in every and any way. When Ismael was in kindergarten, I began to be concerned about whether I was being a bad mother.
XAVIER: I was going to ask you to tell this story. This is a good story.
CUCA: I was concerned I was being a bad mother because I was working full time, and I was doing things that took me from being with you and Ismael. And kindergarten at St. Gregory's was asked to draw a picture of his family, and so he drew stick pictures, and it was Lucas and then me and I had a little briefcase in my hand, and then you were next to him. And he told the teacher and told the class that I was out doing important things for other kids. And he told me at that tender age of five, that it was good that I was doing what I was doing. I don't know how he came to that conclusion, but it was very important for me to listen to him at that time and to know that as women, we are able, not to have everything, not to balance everything, but to pay attention at the right time to those things that we are committed to. And I feel that I have had the good fortune of contributing through IDRA to young people across the country, but also to be a good mama. And I hope that that is so, I guess.
XAVIER: Oh, that's certainly been my experience, and its good fortune. And from what I've heard, it's also been the support of people in that community and throughout your life to help you make it happen. You've told me the story before of Dr. Cárdenas giving you the leave from work that you needed when you were sure that you had just neglected your children for too long, and just day by day to make that balance happen. And I will tell you that my memory of your career is one in which-- and I think Ismael would say the same, we're very proud. It's kind of cool to have a mom who's a bit of a local celebrity and who's achieved so much, but not just-- and this goes back to the theme of your childhood and feeling the need to achieve to be loved. I mean, you've really brought the message home to us that achievement is not for the sake of achievement. It's not just that you've done a lot of things, which you have, but work that is grounded in meaning and work that is grounded in values, like fairness and justice and equality and the dignity of children in your case, that that's what matters. And I think both me and Ismael in our own ways and our own careers see it that way. We're, I hope, good at what we do, we can be productive, but we feel meaningfully connected to that work. And I think that's because you modeled it well. I don't think any of this was ever just a job for you. That doesn't mean it was all roses all the time. I know it was very costly for you at various points in your life.
XAVIER: But that sense that it's not just a job, maybe calling is not the right word, but it's a passion, it's a mission, it's a commitment. That to me has always been a very sort of-- it's given me a lot of direction, right? It's been a kind of sort of north star for me of like, okay, what kind of life do I want to have? Do I want to have one in which I just do things or achieve things, or do I want to have one in which my work is meaningful?
CUCA: Yes. And then which you, you leave the world a better place.
XAVIER: That's right. Yes.
CUCA: Well, this proud mama needs to also say that when I was lucky enough to have a big gathering at Our Lady of the Lake University to celebrate my leaving in a full-time sense my position as president and becoming president emeritus, both you and Ismael spoke. That was already five years ago. And I hear from different people and quite recently I heard from Bambi Cárdenas who was remembering that occasion which IDRA organized and in which friends and family and policymakers and school folk who partnered with us and with me throughout so many years were there, and they still admire what you shared with them that evening, what Ismael shared. And as a proud mama, I am so, so happy always to hear that and to hear it in the context of those young men are going to make a big difference. And I know Xavier that you as an assistant professor of ethics and theology at St. Mary's University and as Director of the Master’s in Theology Program at that university will affect the lives of many, many young people. And I am so, so proud of you and so heartened by that. And of course, Ismael continues to do his work as director, technical director of data science at the Department of Defense and serving in different ways. His calling to science and to the difference that science makes in the lives of young people. And so, I'm very proud of both of you. And I get to feel that not only can I point to a successful career, which I think most people would agree with along certain terms anyway, but also, and more importantly, to being your mama and Ismael's mama.
XAVIER: I appreciate it, my mama. It feels good to have you proud of us as we're proud of you. And we learned from the best.
CUCA: Thank you, Mikhi.
XAVIER: I love you, Mama.
CUCA: I love you.
XAVIER: Thank you for doing this.
CUCA: I love you, Xavier.
Classnotes Podcast (November 25, 2024). María “Cuca” Robledo Montecel, Ph.D., and her son Xavier Montecel, Ph.D., have embarked on an oral history project in the form of their own podcast, Cuentos de mi familia. In Episode 108, they focus on Cuca’s professional life with IDRA, which spanned 48 of IDRA’s now 51 years. For 26 of those years, she served as IDRA’s President & CEO. She is now President Emerita.
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